Hi Mary,

Thanks for your questions. Without a doubt, the religious world is extremely confusing, particularly when groups make the same claim yet profess divergent ideas. Your observation reminds me of Paul’s statement in 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” If confusion exists, it is not God’s efficacy as an author that is in question, but man’s implementation of God’s design.

Before I answer your questions, please allow me two important clarifications:

1. While this site’s contributors are members of the Lord’s body, onetruechurch.net is not sponsored, overseen, or promoted by any religious body or organization. It is the product of like-minded individuals who see the sectarianism, divisiveness, and variation in modern denominationalism as inherently irreconcilable with Biblical truth. Our objective is not to declare one religious body legitimate while denouncing another. Instead, we challenge all believers in Jesus to examine the religious bodies of which they are a part by asking a simple question, “Does this organization follow the doctrines, structure, and practices of the church as revealed in the New Testament?” In short, we endeavor to point people back to the true arbiter of faith rather than the opinions of men.

2. The New Testament uses the word “church” (literally “the called out” or “assembly”) in two different senses. First it refers to local bodies of believers (congregations or assemblies if you will). For instance:

Romans 16:23 Gaius, my host and the host of the whole church, greets you. Erastus, the treasurer of the city, greets you, and Quartus, a brother.

Clearly, Gaius hosted a local body of believers in his home. Thus Paul calls him, “the host of the whole church”. Additionally, the word church identifies the universal body of believers.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, (23) which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

This is the “one true church”, the incorporated body of believers over which Jesus rules. The corporate body of believers is made up of local congregations:

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Corinth was a local congregation – or body – of believers and was part of the greater whole (“with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord”).

With these two points of clarification in mind, here are my answers:

“What is it about your particular church that sets it apart from all the others in such a way that yours is truly “the one true church” and others who claim the same distinction are not?”

I am aware that several denominations claim to be the “one true church”, but the congregation with which I assemble is undenominational and autonomous. We do not intend to glorify ourselves by declaring “we are the one true church” to the exclusion of others. Instead, we seek to be a part of the “one true church” – the corporate, universal body of Christ – by endeavoring to obey the Lord’s commands and imitate the examples of organization outlined in the NT. We acknowledge no head but Christ, no guide but His revelation, no authority or government beyond what the NT ordains, no doctrine apart from what His word teaches. We endeavor to teach what the NT teaches and bind on no one the traditions of men. This website is filled with content that speaks to this aim in greater detail. I invite you to look around, ask questions, and offer observations. In doing so, I believe you will begin to note what separates our objective from denominationalism.

“Would you say that people who join a church other than your church are not really true Christians?”

Since the congregation I attend is both autonomous and undenominational, I would answer “no”. True Christians become so through the process of their spiritual rebirth. However, in my experience, the majority of the religious world teaches a flawed, unscriptural version of spiritual regeneration. Thus the real question becomes, “What does the NT teach about rebirth in Jesus’ name and does the organization of which I am a part teach a scripturally-accurate rebirth?” Or, one might ask, “If I have gone through a process of spiritual regeneration which is incongruent with God’s word, am I really Christian?” If a religious organization teaches something other than the NT’s definition of rebirth, is any member of that organization a Christian? Furthermore, is that organization a part of the “one true church”?

“Would you say that one must be a member of your church in order to be a bonified Christian?”

I think my answer to the previous question sufficiently answers this one as well.

“If a person joins a church that is not the true “one true church”, can they still go to heaven when they die?”

I am not in the business of either promoting people to heaven or condemning them to hell. Such judgments rest in the hands of Jesus Christ alone. That being said, the only assured salvation the New Testament grants believers is if they are a part of the “one true church”. The church is what the Lord saves, thus to be saved, one must be a part of the one true church. This is why I believe it is so essential that a person examines the “church” that they join. As I illustrated earlier, the corporate body of Christ is made up of individual parts – local congregations. If a person joins a local group which upholds unscriptural doctrines, possesses a government or authority structure foreign to the NT, or incorporates elements of worship which go beyond written revelation, is that group really a part of the corporate body of Christ? And if I am a member of it, is my eternal destiny secure? Those who belong to such organizations must answer those questions. In my experience, few people even ask such questions of either themselves or the organization of which they are a part.

I hope this information helps. Please feel free to ask more questions.

Wade Stanley

Sorry for the lack of clarity. When you say “your church”, I take that to mean the congregation with which I assemble, since I attend an undenominational, autonomous congregation which strives to be a part of the “one true church”. It would be inaccurate for me to say that everyone outside that congregation is not a true Christian. This, obviously, is not the case since the “one true church” is spread throughout the world meeting in various localities.

As I previously mentioned, one fault I see in the broad religious community is a failure to teach the Bible’s message on spiritual rebirth. Thus, I prefer to ask people on an individual basis, “Are you sure you’re a Christian based on the Bible’s definition of that title?”

Yes, I think you captured the essence of my statements accurately and I would agree with your deduction. This may only be a typographical error, but you did pose bullet point 3 as a question as opposed to a statement. If there is some confusion over that particular belief, I would gladly clarify. As you likely noted in the site’s statement above, we strive to base our beliefs on scripture. I can supply NT citations to support what I have asserted. I’m happy to carry on the discussion. Feel free to pose further questions, comments, or requests for clarification.

No offense taken. In fact, I find your candor and honest appraisal refreshing. The denominational world is a tempestuous sea for a truth-seeker to navigate. I share your perplexity and frustration. In particular, I find the marketing angle to which you alluded both accurate and troubling.

Here are some articles that I think you will find helpful. The first lays salvation out in a nutshell, the following expand upon that definition. I also included a couple of articles that address our particular topics of discussion. Each of these articles is authored by a different contributor. Feel free to speak with them directly or, if you prefer, return to this thread.

http://www.onetruechurch.net/?p=11
http://www.onetruechurch.net/?p=22
http://www.onetruechurch.net/?p=31
http://www.onetruechurch.net/?p=47
http://www.onetruechurch.net/?p=55
http://www.onetruechurch.net/?p=200
http://www.onetruechurch.net/?p=1110

It is certainly my pleasure to serve. Let me know how else I can assist.

Sorry for the apparent complexity. Allow me to clarify.

This article was designed to answer a simple question: “What must I do to be saved?” Or, in your words, “what is required of me to be saved?” The NT tells us each of these components (confession, obedience, faith, repentance, and baptism) are necessary for salvation. All of these hinge on the name of Jesus Christ, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12) I must believe Jesus, confess Jesus, obey Jesus, etc. If I do so, I (in NT terms) have “called on the Lord’s name” and have been placed by God in a saved condition.

How then does this article fit with what we previously discussed? As you alluded, the scriptures teach that we must be “born again” to enter God’s kingdom (which is synonymous with a saved condition since only God’s kingdom is saved). So, using a simple line of reasoning:

• If I must be born again to be saved,
• And if I am saved by faith, confession, etc. in the name of Christ,
• Then I am born again in the name of Christ by belief, confession, repentance, obedience, and baptism.

Essentially, this article defines spiritual rebirth in NT terms, or what God requires in order for me to be placed in a “saved condition”. As we have previously discussed, it then behooves me to seek out a group of believers who endeavor to unite themselves with the one true church.

Does that help clarify?

I’m glad to continue our discussion. Bear with me for a moment – I want to be sure I communicate the idea of spiritual rebirth accurately. I may emphasize ideas we have previously discussed or that you already understand. But, I want to be clear not only for your sake, but also for all who read this thread. Thanks for your patience.

Spiritual rebirth is a process of sorts, although I do believe there is a definitive moment where one is ultimately “born again”. We’ll get to that in a moment. There are two passages which should undergird a scriptural understanding of spiritual rebirth.

• James 1:18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
• 1 Peter 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

These two passages teach that a regenerated life is conceived and born by God’s word. When God’s word is sown in a receptive heart it produces an effect. The word’s first effect is belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Romans 10:17, “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.” The second effect is conviction. In Acts 2:37, when the receptive members of the audience believed Peter’s declaration, “therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified…they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, ‘Brothers, what shall we do?’” Genuine faith and conviction produced by God’s word leads the receptive person to the same question, “What shall I do?” Confession, repentance, and baptism are three responses which God commands. Once the word’s work has reached maturity – when faith and conviction take firm root in the receptive heart – these responses should be immediate. Upon his confession of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the Ethiopian eunuch, “commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.” (Acts 8:38) Notice that his expressed faith and conviction led to baptism. Baptism (literally translated “immersion”) in the name of Jesus Christ prompted by the adherent’s faith and conviction is the “definitive moment” where a believer is born again. Jesus teaches this in John 3:5-6:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’”

So, yes, spiritual rebirth is a process of sorts, but one is ultimately born again in the believer’s baptism.

Now turning to obedience, belief, confession, and repentance are all commands a faithful Christian continues to obey after their rebirth in Jesus. So far as other “works necessary for salvation” are concerned, that becomes a little more difficult to define in a concise way. There are certainly lists of activities whose habitual practice will exclude anyone from God’s eternal kingdom: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, and Revelation 21:8 are just a few examples. The NT also commends acts that lead to eternal life: 2 Peter 1:5-11 is one such passage.

That being said, the path to salvation taught by Christ and His apostles is not marked by checklists. Salvation in Jesus Christ is a matter of personal growth, of coming to understand the Lord and His ways through the Bible’s revelation. James likens the word of God to a mirror (1:22-25). The longer one looks into a mirror, the more their physical imperfections stand out. This is true for the Christian as well. The longer they look into God’s word, the more their spiritual imperfections stand out. Thus James exhorts, “be doers of the word”: as your understanding deepens change your ways, follow God’s commands more closely, imitate the good examples you find within, fill your life with the spiritual activities commended by that word. A “newborn” Christian with a rudimentary understanding of God’s word is, spiritually speaking, in a far different place than one who has invested decades in following the Lord’s commands. I believe the Lord takes such growth into account in His judgment (e.g. Matthew 25:14-30, the “parable of the talents”).

So, I believe obedience is a growth process. As I’ve previously stated, I am concerned that religious people have not assessed whether they have kept rudimentary commands which are expected of all. This is why I ask everyone to evaluate themselves in light of these simple truths:

• Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
• Have you publicly confessed that belief?
• Have you repented of your sins?
• Have your sins been washed away by the blood of Jesus in the waters of baptism thus bringing you into God’s kingdom through the Holy Spirit?
• Are you looking into God’s word and endeavoring to follow the commands contained within?

On the contrary, I find your questions pertinent and your willingness to discuss encouraging. I’ll take your questions one at a time.

“So I am puzzled as to why any “works” (or, obedience) are required to be saved is she was saved (“born again”) at the time of her baptism?”

To be born again means one has been placed in a saved condition. But one’s placement in that condition is no guarantor of their eternal destination. It is possible for a person to forsake the Christian faith after their rebirth in Jesus’ name. Consider Colossians 1:21-23

“And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight– if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.”

Notice, if a Christian desires to be presented by Jesus to the Father as holy, blameless, and above reproach, he/she must “continue in the faith…not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard”. If one fails to continue in the faith, they forfeit the assurance granted by the name of Jesus Christ. Therefore, though a Christian is placed in a saved condition upon their spiritual rebirth, he/she must conscientiously endeavor to remain faithful to God in hopes of what awaits. So says Paul in Philippians 3:12-14:

“Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.”

The Christian’s works performed with faith in Jesus play a crucial role in how God will determine their eternal destination.

“Is the personal growth before or after salvation? Do you mean that a saved person will naturally grow after they are spiritually reborn? Or do you mean that an unsaved person must grow before she can be saved and that salvation comes at some point after she has grown enough?”

As I mentioned previously, arriving at the moment of one’s spiritual rebirth is a process wrought by the word of God. Once someone has been born again, they are in a saved condition. It then is incumbent upon them to “continue in the faith”. They do so by discovering the Lord and His ways more perfectly. This is the personal growth to which I referred. Consider Ephesians 5:8-10:

“For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.”

A Christian is reborn as a child of light and should conduct themselves as such. To do so, they must, “[find] out what is acceptable to the Lord.” This does not happen overnight. A newborn Christian discovers God’s will through study of His word. As their knowledge progressively deepens, their discernment sharpens. They begin to notice things that they need to change. In faith, they do so. Over a period of weeks, months, years, their life transforms. All the while the hope of salvation remains because they continue in the faith. The hope of salvation is jeopardized when one gains greater understanding and refuses to repent. Or, they grow weary and forsake the faith for their old ways.

“You said that, ‘A “newborn” Christian with a rudimentary understanding of God’s word is, spiritually speaking, in a far different place than one who has invested decades in following the Lord’s commands.’ Do you mean that a person who has invested decades in following the Lord’s commands has done more ‘works’ (obedience)? How would you describe that ‘different place’? But they are both saved – right?”

The NT alludes to phases of spiritual life that coincide very much with what we observe in the physical. For instance, Hebrews 5:12-14:

“For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”

The author of Hebrews chastens his audience because they failed to grow in the Lord. They should be mature, ready for deeper knowledge, yet he found it necessary to review elementary principles. Clearly, the Lord expects Christians to move from spiritual infancy to spiritual maturity. The knowledge of Christian babes is limited. Yet as they grow in understanding, their senses are exercised and they develop deeper discernment. There are activities or statements I made as a young Christian that make me cringe when I remember them. At the time I thought they were acceptable, but with greater understanding I look back with regret. Did these moments of ignorance jeopardize my salvation? At the time, no; but if I committed those same acts today with my current level of knowledge and discernment, I would be sinning. This is the essential for a Christian at any level:

• What commands has the Lord given that I understand perfectly and yet fail to follow? For, “to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.” (James 4:17)
• Do I worry about my “unknown” sin? No, for, “if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7)
• With greater understanding and discernment, I may recognize that “unknown” disobedience. With that recognition, I need to change my ways (repent).

“All of which puts me in a quandary!!”

Your quandary is the quandary of many, believe me. The resolution of this comes down to how we define works. It was my week to write an article for the site, so I fulfilled my obligation by writing an article in response to your question. You can find it here. As I look at each of the passages you cite, I believe every one of them fit into the three categories I mention, with the exception of John 6:28-29. I mention that passage in connection with the final category of works which do participate in our justification.

“But if certain works are required to acquire salvation: 1. Why are those works not spelled out in detail so one can know what they are and DO them? 2. How can I know if I have done enough “works” to know for sure that I am saved? 3. The verses cited above seem to be saying that our works cannot save us. What should I make of those verses?”
I think I answered your third sub-question in my answer to question 4.

In answer to your first sub-question, I believe Christian works are set out in detail. In my response to question 3, you have no doubt noted that obedience to God is a process of discovery. Although it may appear otherwise, I’m not endeavoring to be evasive. It’s just very difficult to pin down such a broad topic that depends so heavily on where an individual finds themselves in the growth process. If I were to hold a Bible study with a new Christian, I would study Matthew 5-7, Romans 12-13, Galatians 5-6, Ephesians 4-6, Philippians 3-4, and Colossians 3-4. All of these deal with Christian character and will contain many of the works which please God.

Your second sub-question is extremely important. John answers this in 1 John 1:6-2:5:

“If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.”

At no point should a Christian ever believe that they have fulfilled every command, for if they say that they have no sin they lie and do not practice the truth. However, if a Christian endeavors to follow after Jesus, His blood covers all of their sins, including those that escape their notice. If we recognize sin in our life and we confess, He forgives us. If we endeavor to keep His commandments, we can be confident that we both know and love Him.

What this passage teaches me is that my obedience is not quantitatively measured, that it’s not a matter of doing “enough” works. Even though I may be living as good a life as possible, the word assures me that sin is present, though I remain unaware of it. But since I am a Christian, the blood of Jesus cleanses me from all sin. I must continue in my obedience, confess my sins when I am made aware, and trust in the cleansing power of Jesus’ blood.

“…I’m asking for your personal testimony.”

Forgive me, but I do not believe personal testimony or experience relates to the truthfulness of my position. I have articulated my beliefs based on scripture. The merits of my position are not confirmed by my application but by their scriptural accuracy. Truth stands apart from the individual, above the subjective, it transcends the personal.

Based on your statements, it seems you doubt my conclusions. I would appreciate your reciprocal analysis of the following conclusions and my subsequent questions:

1. “I thought “not of works” (Eph 2:9) meant “not of works” – any works.” How do you define works?
2. “What you have explained in this last tutorial sounds different – it sounds like salvation is somehow still ‘pending’ while the baby Christian grows up.” How would you interpret Philippians 3:12-15?
3. “And if that’s the case, then one could never say with 100% confidence that they are saved.” What scripture would you use to support your conclusion? How would you reconcile your conclusion with 2 Peter 1:5-11? In particular, please note verses 10-11.

I appreciate your willingness to reason from the scriptures. I pray that it may continue.

For those of you following this thread, the site was down for a few weeks, but my conversation with Mary continued over email. This is the first set of questions posed along with my response.

Thank you – and Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Mary

“I am curious why you changed from the word “saved” to the word “justified”.

The shift is not arbitrary. James does not say we are “saved” by works, he says we are justified by works performed with faith. Justification and salvation are not synonymous. However, one cannot be saved apart from justification. Since you acknowledge that one is justified by works, consider this line of reasoning:

· If justification is necessary for salvation,
· And if I am justified by works performed with faith in Jesus,
· Then, are not the works performed with faith in Jesus necessary for salvation?

My point is that, contrary to prevailing religious opinion, there are works that play a role in our soul’s salvation. Without works of faith, we cannot be justified. Without justification, we cannot be saved.

Are there works that the scripture says are necessary for salvation? Certainly, and I have mentioned them in previous comments. For your convenience:

Faith itself is a work that is necessary for salvation.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

A faithful confession is a work by which we are saved.
Romans 10:9-10 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Repentance, since it requires not only a change in mind but a change in conduct, is a work that saves.
Acts 3:19-20 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,

A water immersion, when submitted to in faith, is a work that saves.
1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us–baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Wade